AP

Mark Powel wrote an article entitled ‘Presbyterian Men and Women’, and this is hopefully a respectful response. In the PCNSW we allow female elders, but this is being questioned. It is important that we allow Scripture to guide and shape our thinking as we move forward together. This response seeks to clarify biblical realities rather than debate current or proposed church structures.

Mark offers five points from Don Carson against interpreting submission in Ephesians 5:21 in a reciprocal way.

“First, in the Greek text the verb “to submit” never has to do with mutual submission anywhere in the New Testament. It always has to do with submission in some kind of order, rank, or structure, without exception.”

Carson’s first statement assumes Ephesians 5:21 does not mean mutual submission which is not evidence that it doesn’t. Further, 1 Corinthians 14:34 and 1 Timothy 2:11 are two verses where submission is mentioned that do not specify an order, rank or structure.

Carson’s second point is,

“the expression “one another” in verse 21… though it can be perfectly reciprocal, it may or may not be depending on the context…” It cannot be perfectly reciprocal where “men slay each other [Rev 6:4]”.

Carson’s point is that everyone cannot kill everyone, and so ‘one another’ is never ‘perfectly reciprocal’.

The ‘one another’ passages are rarely ‘perfectly reciprocal’ in practice. Loving ‘one another’ does not mean that everyone will love each other to the same extent in the same way at the same moment. Rather it suggests a general principle. Our general desire should be one of submission where we yield to the needs of another (John 13:12-17, Philippians 2:1-8).

Carson’s third point relates to the flow of the Ephesians passage and concludes, “Part of what it means, then, to be filled with the Spirit is to have an attitude of submission to one another.” Carson understands Paul’s description of the household code as Paul saying, “let me show you what this submission looks like”. Yet, there is no indication that Paul limits submission to only wives of husbands any more than he limits sacrificial love from Ephesians 5:1-2 to only husbands to wives.

Fourth, Carson references ‘head’ saying, 

“Despite the efforts of some to make head mean something like ‘source’, it has been shown again and again and again that when head is in the singular in first-century Greek, and used metaphorically as here, what it means is to exercise some kind of authority over another.”

Carson’s point runs contrary to evidence found in Biblical Greek Lexicons that reference ‘head’ to mean ‘source’ and not ‘authority’ (E.g., Liddell & Scott. A Greek-English Lexicon). Also, in Ephesians 4:15 we have a singular metaphorical use of ‘head’ that cannot mean ‘to exercise some kind of authority over another’. It states that we will “grow up into him who is the Head, that is Christ.” Christ does have authority over us (Ephesians 1:22-23), but this meaning does not make sense of ‘head’ in Ephesians 4:15. Head and body metaphors often address unity not authority, such as Ephesians 4:15-16 and 1 Corinthians 12:12-27.

Finally, Carson says,

“Occasionally wives are told to love their husbands; they are always told to submit to them. Men are always told to love their wives. They are never told to submit to them. Those are just the facts.”

Yet all Christians are called to submit to each other and to love each other. John Calvin with specific reference to Eph 5:21 says,

“God has bound us so strongly to each other, that no man ought to endeavour to avoid subjection; and where love reigns, mutual services will be rendered. I do not except even kings and governors, whose very authority is held for the service of the community. It is highly proper that all should be exhorted to be subject to each other in their turn.”

Mark quotes Grudem to support the claim that the prophetic ministries of Miriam, Deborah and Huldah were not public. He suggests women prophets always prophesied privately or prophesied to women.

There is no restriction shown in Scripture of the roles of these women. When Miriam “took a tambourine in her hand, and all the women went out after her with tambourines and dancing” (Exodus 15:20-21) it does not tell us that when she prophesied it was only to women or privately.

Likewise with Deborah, there is no evidence that Deborah spoke to Barak in private. The text moves from describing Deborah’s very public leadership role “under the Palm of Deborah” to stating that she summoned Barak. The only location indicated in the text is under the Palm of Deborah. We have no reason to believe that Deborah prophesied in private or only to women.

Grudem says that Huldah, “gave her prophecy privately to a small group of five messengers from the king.” The text is clear, Huldah prophesied in the presence of five men, who were there on behalf of the King, who was enquiring on behalf of “the remnant in Israel and Judah about what is written in this book that has been found” (2 Chronicles 34:21). There is nothing private or women only about this prophecy that was sought by the King on behalf of the nation!

Mark says that

“The rare occasions of women leading the people of Israel actually functioned not as an example to be followed but a rebuke to… for instance, the prophet Isaiah writes: “Youths oppress my people, women rule over them” (Isaiah 3:12).”

This is the only verse to make a statement such as this about youths or women, and it is often used to discredit female leadership.

Marg Mowczko counters this claim with the following which also aligns with the broader passage:

“The Hebrew word for women in Isaiah 3:12 is nashim (נשים). With identical consonants, the word can also be read as noshim (נשים), which means “creditors.” The Aramaic Targum Jonathan of Isaiah 3:12 has nosim (“creditors”). Accordingly, the New English Translation (NET) translates the pertinent phrase as “creditors rule over them.”[4]

The Septuagint was translated from Hebrew to Greek centuries before the Masoretes added their system of vowel points to the Hebrew text. (It is these later vowel points that distinguish nashim from noshim.) The Septuagint’s version of Isaiah 3:12a, translated into English, reads: “O my people, your extractors strip you, and extortioners rule over you.”

Extortion is alluded to in the verses directly following verse 12 where God condemns those who have plundered and oppressed the poor.” (https://margmowczko.com/isaiah-3_12-women-leaders/)

Finally, Mark believes that Junia was not an Apostle saying, “the office of apostleship clearly did not include women.” The way Romans 16:7 reads without a pre-conceived patriarchal construct would be that Junia, a woman, was an apostle, and valued by Paul as such.

Eldership is one role referenced in the New Testament. These roles bring certain responsibilities and accountability but not all of them come with the power and authority we might assume. Our preoccupation with authority is often at odds with Jesus’ words and example (Matthew 20:25-28, John 13:1-17, Philippians 2:3-8).

– Dave Woolcott